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well, as far as all the war record stuff......I am just going to leave all of that alone. I think it was very disresectfull of how the vietnam vets were treated. no one after going to fight for your country should be treated like that. the problem with that was they disagreed with the war and took it out on the people that were doing there jobs and there duty for there country, not the government who kept them their so long. I think peaceful protest is the way to go if you disagree with something.

I don't think the war on terror is unpopular, but I could see Karry being more cautious of his actions when it comes to jumping into a war. and I can say I do agree with him that there needs to be more justification when it comes to deploying troops.

I live in a town that is kept alive by factories, and I can tell you that we give huge tax breaks. companies still leave. we have had 2 leave in the past 2 years. that is what made me go back to school.

DBrown wrote:Bush would not respond with any justification as to why he sent afgan war lords into the mountains after osama binladin when the best and the brightest were waiting for orders. also at the second debate on the last question he wouldn't answer it, like he was afraid to show people that he was human. I mean he could have at least gave some minor things he made decisions on that were wrong.

We outsource military operations all the time. This is a good thing. We might be doing this for any number of reasons. Remember, we are operating in other countries. This stuff is all rountinely negotiated. We do have troops there actively helping. This is a special forces and black-op type operation. Do you really expect the the government to advertise what we're doing over there? Do you see any need for tanks, artillery, infantry, and bombers? This isn't a military kind of operation any more.

The people over there are extremely corrupt. They would sell out their own mother for the right price. This is where our intelligence comes from. Yes, we pay killers, war lords, drug lords etc... to work for us and give us information. The last administration, wasn't doing this, and our intelligence suffered tremendously. It wouldn't surpise me if we are trying to infiltrate some of these terrorist networks vs, taking them out completely.

Bush didn't make up reasons to go to Iraq. There were many many many reasons to go. Whether or not you agree with any of them or not is up to you. The fact that no significat WMD's have been found doesn't mean anything to me. I believe giving freedom a foothold in the middle east will disrupt terrorism significantly.

In regards to the debate question, that was completely unfair. Bush was asked what mistakes he made, then kerry gets the chance to talk about bushes mistakes. I would have a avoided that question as much as possible too. There is an election at stake. Even so, Bush did state that made a mistake in some of the people he appointed, but he wasn't going to name names, which is the honorable thing to do. The moderator of that debate sucked. She needed to leave her personal agenda at home.

DBrown wrote:well, as far as all the war record stuff......I am just going to leave all of that alone. I think it was very disresectfull of how the vietnam vets were treated. no one after going to fight for your country should be treated like that. the problem with that was they disagreed with the war and took it out on the people that were doing there jobs and there duty for there country, not the government who kept them their so long. I think peaceful protest is the way to go if you disagree with something.

I don't think the war on terror is unpopular, but I could see Karry being more cautious of his actions when it comes to jumping into a war. and I can say I do agree with him that there needs to be more justification when it comes to deploying troops.

I live in a town that is kept alive by factories, and I can tell you that we give huge tax breaks. companies still leave. we have had 2 leave in the past 2 years. that is what made me go back to school.

You should weigh Kerry's military service very heavily. That's who he is. We're talking about the potential POTUS here.

We disagree. I don't think we jumped into war at all. The war came to us on 9-11.

The Western Washington economy took one of the hardest hits, with Boeing an the tech industry. We still haven't recovered, not even close. I don't blame Bush though. The .bomb era was already crashing before Bush took office. 9-11 just compounded an already diving economy. The economy goes through it's highs and lows on about 20 year cycles. We are back up cycle now. I believe this. So far inflation hasn't been that bad like it was in the 80's. Interest rates are low, and I'm in a very decent house because of that. As are millions of others.

Where did your factory jobs go? The rise and fall business is normal. Places get bought out, business relocate etc...

There are many who will never.. ever.. "leave all that war stuff alone" http://www.sassnet.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/u ... 2;t=097028

our jobs went to mexico. they work for cheaper and the tax breaks were getting ready to come to an end so they left without thinking of the repercussions. my mom worked in the administrative office for one of them and they didn't even evaluate the situation before they went. it ended up costing them more per product to do it that way so they must have had a huge tax break here. when something like that happens around here it realy hits people hard. factories arn't the only thing but they are the heart beat of our town. corvetts are made here, DANA, sumitomo, fruit of the loom, wyhouser(I think thats how you spell it), nasco, DESA, country oven bakery, and list goes on and on. we are central east coast so they just tend to look at this area. I think both sides of the presidential issue are well pointed, and we all seem to have our reasons for why we have our choices. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens in 11 days!

Nobody wrote: You should weigh Kerry's military service very heavily. That's who he is. We're talking about the potential POTUS here.

We disagree. I don't think we jumped into war at all. The war came to us on 9-11.

Exactly. We didnt jump into war. It went through the US congress and house of reps and passed. Sometimes you do get bad intel. It happens. That alone doesnt make it a bad invasion or cause.

As far as Kerry, there is something about him when we (my wife and I) watch him that isnt right. I dont trust him with our country and our national security. Kerry also cannot make up his mind and stick to it to save his life (or any of ours).

Everyone should read/watch all the info out there and make their own decision.

Go USA

I suppoe I 'stirred the pot" by askling the ? I did earlier. I still did not get the answers I expected as to why the under-30 voters back Kerry. This discussion has turned more about the candidates military records than the other issues. In my opinion....they BOTH should leave the military issues out of both their mouths since ...in my opinion....they BOTh do have somw "issues". I guess I was looking more for discussion about things such as taxes,S/S,enviornmental issues, trade,etc.

I wish this would reflect how the actual election will turn out but I doubt it will. FWIW I think Kerry's gonna win because the whole flip flop BS never know what he's gonna lie about next worked for Clinton.

I hate politics BTW

TNMAN wrote:I still did not get the answers I expected as to why the under-30 voters back Kerry. .

Because us older guys are wiser . I wish I really knew why that is what it seems, but I cannot put my finger on it. Its not that way here in Utah. A big majority around here are Republican so its that way.

i think it is education,


not schooling, but being aware of whats going on in the world. the young ones tend not to see the big picture. They may not like some of the stuff bush has done in the past 4 years and dont want him so they vote kerry. Not realy knowing what kerry is about.

im 23, and im voting bush... i like that he does whats right even though its not popular, he dont want to take my guns, hes a hunter and fisher,and theres something about kerry that i just dont trust

im an indpendent to, i think voting straight party is fawking stupid i vote for the issues at hand not the party there with

i'm 16 and would be voting for bush...

wilber wrote:im an indpendent to, i think voting straight party is fawking stupid i vote for the issues at hand not the party there with

But issues define a party. Folks who want to close public land and take guns away from Americans give buckets of money to........thats right Democrats. So if a canidate takes millions of $$'s to run for office and wins on the support of those paying him he will take "care" of those groups. Think what you want but it all comes down to $$'s. Canidates are bought and paid for. The only question is who bought and paid for who.

wilber wrote:im an indpendent to, i think voting straight party is fawking stupid i vote for the issues at hand not the party there with

I'm registered Republican but I can't ever recall voting the ticket. Like Fatty, I vote for whomever I feel will get the job done. That appears to be Dubya this time around.

As for why different age groups vote the way they do, all I can say is what I witness around me every day, and from what my kids' 30-ish friends do and say. They want all the freebie programs they can get; if they have to pay anything in taxes it's too much; they aren't having fun if they're not fawked up on alcohol or some substance/chemical; they feel they have a right to say and do anything, no matter how offensive, without consequence or responsibility; hard work is a foreign concept (most are only sporadically employed; some have never had a real job); they consider abortion to be a method of conventional birth control; and, most of all, they have absolutely no respect for the traditional morals and principles that set this nation apart and above all others to begin with.

Honor, loyalty, respect, integrity, and especially truth are merely words to them. My oldest son has a bumper sticker on his car that says, "Nobody got killed when Clinton lied."

Those things alone would be enough reason for me to vote against who my son and his crowd supports.

Happy_Jack wrote:

wilber wrote:im an indpendent to, i think voting straight party is fawking stupid i vote for the issues at hand not the party there with

But issues define a party. Folks who want to close public land and take guns away from Americans give buckets of money to........thats right Democrats. So if a canidate takes millions of $$'s to run for office and wins on the support of those paying him he will take "care" of those groups. Think what you want but it all comes down to $$'s. Canidates are bought and paid for. The only question is who bought and paid for who.

but jack, what im sayin is if i vote straight republican, in my area, it can put some in power that dont agree with the public lands and guns. but its a shame people have to be bought