Email I got today...

[Phillippi]

Here is an email that I got today. I thought I would post it in hopes that the writer of the email will check out this site for some answers.

JP


"Still stuck: I have a C4 going into a 1965 Ford 289. The bellhousing is from a 1977 Granada. When I went to put the bellhousing on the 164 tooth flywheel and converter... it jammed the side of the torque. So, now I have purchased a 157 tooth and a 10.5" torque assuming that I had a smaller bellhousing. Now the 289 starter won't reach the flywheel. I even purchased a 1977 Granada starter and it still doesn't reach. Basically, I am confused that the bellhousing doesn't fit over the larger flywheel and torque, but is obviously too big for the smaller flywheel. Any ideas? What is a good smaller bellhousing to search for?

HELP!

I've tried to get on the forum, but still haven't recieved a confirmation

Travis"

[Happy_Jack]

I have a J.W. 157 tooth bell and converter for a c-4. The flywheel I have is for a 80's up 50 oz balance engine though. The flywheel should be available at most parts stores though. Any idea where this guy is at?

[Nobody]

I think you were probably right the first time with the 164 tooth flywheel. Did you use the metal plate that goes between the block and the bellhousing? That extra 1/8" is probably all you needed.

I got my V8 from a 1977 granada, and if I recall correctly it used a 164 tooth flexplate.

[TC]

Thank god, I finally got on this sweet website. Thanks Phillipe and Matt. So, yeah... the problem... still there. I live in Bellingham, WA, but my Bronco II is waaaayyy out in the sticks. My brother and my dad are troubleshooting until we find out what is wrong then I will go down to work.
The code on the bellhousing says it's from a Granada and it rubs the torque on the 164 tooth and creates about a 1 inch gap from the starter on the 157 tooth.
I say screw it. Does anyone have a small 302 bellhousing for sale?

TC (travis)

[TC]

Oh yeah,
Yes, I used the "spacer" plate. Pretty sure my engine is a 28 oz. I'm not 100% sure how to tell what my engine takes and what the flywheel weight is supposed to be. I heard that before 1981 it was all 28 oz. Is that true?

and...uh... what is a cyron?

TC

[Nobody]

Oh yeah,
Yes, I used the "spacer" plate. Pretty sure my engine is a 28 oz. I'm not 100% sure how to tell what my engine takes and what the flywheel weight is supposed to be. I heard that before 1981 it was all 28 oz. Is that true?

and...uh... what is a cyron?

TC

Correct, there is a 1981 break on the imbalance. 1980 and earlier is 28oz, and 1981 and later is 50oz. I like to call the earlier 302's and later 5.0L. They also moved the dipstick to the block and went to a piece rear main. This is not something you want to screw up on.

[Happy_Jack]

Oh yeah,
and...uh... what is a cyron?
TC

In the new si fi series Battlestar Galactica "Cylons" look like people. Guess Nobody says he's human and not a machine.(but is he)



Back to the problem. An auto Torque Converter can be tricky to get fully seated on the tranny input shaft sometimes. The Bell Housing should be on the tranny. Then the TC should go on and wiggle and turn it a little for it to seat all the way to the rear. Then the tranny attaches to the back of the engine using the bell housing to engine bolts. As you do this line the TC studs up with the holes in the Flexplate.

Now one other thing. If the engine was a std. tranny engine it should have had a pilot bushing in the back of the crankshaft for the std. tranny input shaft. This has to be removed so the nose of the TC can fit inside the back end of the crankshaft.

I used the same starter on the 157 and the 164 setups I had. So a 157 flywheel should work with a 157 bell and a 164 flywheel should work with a 164 bell.

One last thing. Is your c-4 case or pan fill? If it's case fill and you have been changing bells that bolt to the pump there is a good chance that the input shaft has come out enough and parts are no longer aligned correctly in side. You will need to pull the pan and the valve body then clutch assy and get everything in place again. If not the tranny will be locked up and not work properly.

Good luck. If you have anymore questions just ask. I do have complete 157 and 164 tooth parts and can send you pics if you like. My set up is for the case fill tranny.

[TC]

So here's the update:
I convinced my pops to drive out to the sticks to take a look at the transmission again. I asked if he would put the torque and the flywheel on the transmission free of the engine and see if it sank in enough that it should clear.
He just called and told me that he grabbed the shaft of the transmission and realized that it would not turn. He grabbed a loose C5 that I had and turned the shaft easily. Hmmmm...
He says, "Well I think I know what's wrong. When I took off the bellhousing, the shaft came out a little bit, so I stuck it back on."
I decided to log on here and tell everyone to avoid old mechanics. They were good at one time, but have forgotten some basics with old age. Once I got here, I read happy Jacks message to confirm my suspicions that the old man is going senile.
Well, I'm off to tear apart a tranny. I found out that a 77 Granada does take the 164 tooth. Thanks again Jack!
Hoping that next week is drop in day (Remember that I have to drive 4 housr to work on this thing). I don't even want to say how long it's been going for, but let's just say that Matt's 302 swap in 10 days makes him #6 on my hero list.
... right after the guy who invented the portable vehicle toilet: check it out:
www.bumperdumper.com

[Happy_Jack]

TC,

Have you taken a C-4/5 apart before? If not you may want to let a tranny shop do the work. You really need to keep stuff extra clean.

I only did mine once. And I would have a tranny shop do it if I had to have another done. If your going to use a t-case, the tail housing the t-case attaches to needs to be kept very clean or the tranny will not shift properly.

If you have any questions just ask and I'll do what I can to help. But my memory is not what it used to be.

Good Luck
An Old Mechanic

[TC]

Yeah, MY old man is going to drop it off at a faithful tranny shop and I'll just go down Monday to pick it up and hopefully get some work done. He doesn't want to mess with it, and I don't want to waste time working on it when I get down there when I could be dropping it in.
Thanks.