Hi, I'm new to these forums. I recently bought a 1988 Bronco II, and it has a score of problems ranging from various minor fluid leaks to the passenger window not working properly, but the biggest problem for the moment is that it'll stall frequently.
It starts up fine, runs beautifully, and after a few minutes, it cuts out. It sputters very slightly before dying, just a quick drop of RPMs before it goes completely. It always starts right back up, but it makes it very difficult to drive as many of the roads around here have no shoulder.
Also, a few days ago, I parked it and tried to start it, and it just cranked. I heard the fuel pumps kick in when I turned the key, and it'd crank evenly, but it wouldn't catch. The next day it still wouldn't start, but after checking a few electrical connections (nothing was loose that I could see) and priming the fuel pump a few times, it finally caught and I was able to drive it home, though it still stalled out twice on the short trip, it started right back up.
I checked a few places, and so far the most likely candidate I could see was the fuel filter clogging. It's not a perfect fit, as it doesn't sputter much before dying and doesn't at all when it's running, but I figure it probably needs a new filter anyway. The TFI module is another likely story, though from what I understand, they usually don't start back up until it's had about 20 minutes to cool down. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
1988 B2 2.9EFI stalls, starts right back up
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RowanAmeth
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Ranger Dave
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Re: 1988 B2 2.9EFI stalls, starts right back up
when it dies out/stalls(dont try to start it),check to see if there is fuel presure in the rail.
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RowanAmeth
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Re: 1988 B2 2.9EFI stalls, starts right back up
I'll go try to find out, though I don't have a pressure gauge. I know where the test valve is, but without the gauge, I'd have to guess how much pressure is in the rail. This gives me an excuse to drive to the gas station, I need to fill the tank anyway (the gauge is broken, I know there's enough gas though, as I'd put a few gallons in the first time it died).Ranger Dave wrote:when it dies out/stalls(dont try to start it),check to see if there is fuel presure in the rail.
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Ranger Dave
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Re: 1988 B2 2.9EFI stalls, starts right back up
just take a little screw driver and push the valve down, if the gas hits the hood ya have enough preasure. if you have preasure,then check for spark when it dies out. ya have to narrow it down to fuel of electrical
my 88 did something like that. it ended up being the computer
my 88 did something like that. it ended up being the computer
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RowanAmeth
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Re: 1988 B2 2.9EFI stalls, starts right back up
Well, I just got back from the gas station, and wouldn't ya know it, I couldn't get the darned thing to stall! It didn't hesitate, revved fine, like nothing was wrong. I'm expecting company so I can't go out and drive it 'til it stalls, but it ran like a champ the whole way there and back. Of course, I was giving myself a heart attack every time I turned onto a busy road, but nothing!
Now, last time I checked fuel pressure, I used the tip of a key to press the valve, and gas did squirt out, but not all the way to the hood (more than a dribble, less than a fountain). I'm not sure that I pushed on the valve hard enough to open it all the way, but it's possible that I have an intermittent fuel pressure problem, which could very well be the filter. I'm hoping that's the case, I bought a new one 'cause they were cheap and from the PO's service history, I doubt it was EVER changed, so even if that's not the problem, it couldn't hurt to replace it anyway.
So, by "computer", do you mean the TFI module on the distributor? Because I hear that part's a real pain to replace. The "Check Engine" light comes on when it stalls (which, I'm guessing, is expected), but doesn't STAY on. That is, when I turn the engine back on, the CEL turns off like nothing was wrong.
As an aside, what's the flat black box on a bracket bolted to the firewall on the passenger side of the engine compartment, about the size of a deck of cards? I've looked through the Chilton's guide, but I haven't found any reference to it. As far as I know, the truck is completely stock.
Now, last time I checked fuel pressure, I used the tip of a key to press the valve, and gas did squirt out, but not all the way to the hood (more than a dribble, less than a fountain). I'm not sure that I pushed on the valve hard enough to open it all the way, but it's possible that I have an intermittent fuel pressure problem, which could very well be the filter. I'm hoping that's the case, I bought a new one 'cause they were cheap and from the PO's service history, I doubt it was EVER changed, so even if that's not the problem, it couldn't hurt to replace it anyway.
So, by "computer", do you mean the TFI module on the distributor? Because I hear that part's a real pain to replace. The "Check Engine" light comes on when it stalls (which, I'm guessing, is expected), but doesn't STAY on. That is, when I turn the engine back on, the CEL turns off like nothing was wrong.
As an aside, what's the flat black box on a bracket bolted to the firewall on the passenger side of the engine compartment, about the size of a deck of cards? I've looked through the Chilton's guide, but I haven't found any reference to it. As far as I know, the truck is completely stock.
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Ranger Dave
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Re: 1988 B2 2.9EFI stalls, starts right back up
no, the ECU(computer) behind the pass. side kick panel. just for giggles.turn the key on(dont start it),let the fuel pump cycle, then push the valve open. the black box,MAP sensor
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RowanAmeth
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Re: 1988 B2 2.9EFI stalls, starts right back up
So I think I have it figured out! I was driving my friend home, and on the way back, it stalled as usual. So, taking your advice, I pop the hood and check fuel pressure. Nothing. Just a little trickle, then completely empty. So at that point, I knew it was fuel, not spark.
I get back in, and turn the key to "on", but not "start". And I don't hear the pumps. I try a few more times to confirm, and sure enough, nothing's happening. I press the inertia switch reset, still nothing, I try a few more times, and eventually I hear the hum of pumps. So, crossing my fingers that it wasn't my imagination, I turn the key, and it fires right up. I drive it the rest of the way home with no more problems.
So I've narrowed it down to a few things it could be. Either one or both of the the pumps themselves are shot and cut out sporadically, the relay is shot and does the same, or there's a wire somewhere that's not getting a good connection. Also the inertia switch MIGHT be the problem, not necessarily triggering since it didn't need to be reset, but maybe not getting a good connection, since it did start up after fiddling with the plug to the switch, though that may have been a coincidence. I'll have to do some research later with a mechanic friend, but I think I have it pretty much figured out.
I'm actually somewhat happy about this, since it means I don't have to keep throwing money at the truck to fix something I don't understand. If you have any suggestions that might help me narrow it down further, I'd appreciate it. Thanks for the help!
I get back in, and turn the key to "on", but not "start". And I don't hear the pumps. I try a few more times to confirm, and sure enough, nothing's happening. I press the inertia switch reset, still nothing, I try a few more times, and eventually I hear the hum of pumps. So, crossing my fingers that it wasn't my imagination, I turn the key, and it fires right up. I drive it the rest of the way home with no more problems.
So I've narrowed it down to a few things it could be. Either one or both of the the pumps themselves are shot and cut out sporadically, the relay is shot and does the same, or there's a wire somewhere that's not getting a good connection. Also the inertia switch MIGHT be the problem, not necessarily triggering since it didn't need to be reset, but maybe not getting a good connection, since it did start up after fiddling with the plug to the switch, though that may have been a coincidence. I'll have to do some research later with a mechanic friend, but I think I have it pretty much figured out.
I'm actually somewhat happy about this, since it means I don't have to keep throwing money at the truck to fix something I don't understand. If you have any suggestions that might help me narrow it down further, I'd appreciate it. Thanks for the help!
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Ranger Dave
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Re: 1988 B2 2.9EFI stalls, starts right back up
if you know anyone with another 88+ B2 try there computer.
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RowanAmeth
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Re: 1988 B2 2.9EFI stalls, starts right back up
Sadly, no, I'm the only person I know with ANY Bronco, let alone one of my particular vintage. Not even a Ranger. I live in an odd area, the town itself is fairly small but well-connected, with a university, but there are miles and miles of farms and woods surrounding the area. So something with 4WD is very handy on the back roads, but mostly we're looking at modern Explorers or Blazers, nobody wants to bother with an old, problematic SUV from the '80s. Except me, of course.Ranger Dave wrote:if you know anyone with another 88+ B2 try there computer.
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Ranger Dave
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Re: 1988 B2 2.9EFI stalls, starts right back up
im the same wayRowanAmeth wrote:
Sadly nobody wants to bother with an old, problematic SUV from the '80s. Except me, of course.
Re: 1988 B2 2.9EFI stalls, starts right back up
Rowan
I used to have the same problem. My '88 BII would run fine for awhile and stall out. Most of the time when I sprayed starter fluid in the intake it would start right back up. Some times it would take a few tries. Eventually it didn't start. I went through the whole fuel system to no avail. I called the closest Ford dealer and the mechanic said he had a good idea what was causing the problem. $85.00 for the tow and $125.00 for the service got me a new connector on the plug in to the inertia switch. Man I was hot. With a crimping tool and a trip to the local hardware store I could have fixed it myself. Apparently this is a common problem due to the placement of the switch. If you pull the plug again look for any burned or melted connectors or melted wires. I hope you get it sorted out soon. Let us know what you find is the problem.
Rob in NC
I used to have the same problem. My '88 BII would run fine for awhile and stall out. Most of the time when I sprayed starter fluid in the intake it would start right back up. Some times it would take a few tries. Eventually it didn't start. I went through the whole fuel system to no avail. I called the closest Ford dealer and the mechanic said he had a good idea what was causing the problem. $85.00 for the tow and $125.00 for the service got me a new connector on the plug in to the inertia switch. Man I was hot. With a crimping tool and a trip to the local hardware store I could have fixed it myself. Apparently this is a common problem due to the placement of the switch. If you pull the plug again look for any burned or melted connectors or melted wires. I hope you get it sorted out soon. Let us know what you find is the problem.
Rob in NC
Rob in NC
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RowanAmeth
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Re: 1988 B2 2.9EFI stalls, starts right back up
Well, it's not the relay. Now it's not starting at all, so I have a friend coming over in a few minutes with some tools, a multimeter, and some wire to try jumping some things. The inertia switch is back in scrutiny, especially after what ecst2wcst said, my symptoms are identical (though I never tried starter fluid). I had a hell of a time trying to find the power distribution box in the engine compartment, apparently my truck doesn't have one, because the fuse to the fuel pump is right there in the fuse box under the steering column. I'll be trying a few different things. Hopefully something will work, because I need to get the truck inspected and I seriously doubt it'd pass if it doesn't start, lol.
Also, I've learned that my truck is some sort of wildlife refuge, I found feathers behind the fuse box panel, what looks like a squirrel's hoard along the battery tray, plenty of spiderwebs (and dead spiders, including a particularly large one in the back), and various other signs of former inhabitants. I doubt it's a matter of a chewed wire, but if nothing else works I can always look for rodent-based damage.
Also, I've learned that my truck is some sort of wildlife refuge, I found feathers behind the fuse box panel, what looks like a squirrel's hoard along the battery tray, plenty of spiderwebs (and dead spiders, including a particularly large one in the back), and various other signs of former inhabitants. I doubt it's a matter of a chewed wire, but if nothing else works I can always look for rodent-based damage.
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RowanAmeth
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Re: 1988 B2 2.9EFI stalls, starts right back up
After further testing, we've discovered that it's not the inertia switch, either. It's getting a little over 10 volts through the plug when I turn the key (which I'd think is about right, taking resistance into account), and jumping the switch with a length of wire didn't help. It's also not the fuse, so my options are down to a broken connection somewhere on the truck, or the ECU as Ranger Dave said (which I can't borrow a replacement for, so I don't know how I'd check that).
I suppose it is possible that both pumps failed simultaneously, but I doubt it. I'll have to drop the tank eventually to replace the sending unit anyway, so I have a working gas gauge, and if I still can't get the truck running by that point, I might as well check the pump there to see if it'll spin when connected directly to 12vdc.
Looking at the electrical diagram, from the inertia switch (where we know it has power) to the pump is only one wire, pk/bk, so if there's a break somewhere along there I might need to drop the tank to get to the connectors and test for voltage. Past that is just a ground wire, fairly easy to check if I can find where it connects to the frame.
Actually, something just occurred to me. If there's no power to the pump, and it's a direct link from the inertia switch to the pump itself, shouldn't it show 0 volts while turning the key? I only have a high school knowledge of circuitry, but it seems like with an open circuit as would happen with a broken wire or loose ground, nothing would be able to get through to ground to complete the circuit and allow voltage to show on the multimeter. It almost seems like the pk/bk wire has grounded itself somewhere, or the pump is actually getting power through it but won't spin. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I suppose it is possible that both pumps failed simultaneously, but I doubt it. I'll have to drop the tank eventually to replace the sending unit anyway, so I have a working gas gauge, and if I still can't get the truck running by that point, I might as well check the pump there to see if it'll spin when connected directly to 12vdc.
Looking at the electrical diagram, from the inertia switch (where we know it has power) to the pump is only one wire, pk/bk, so if there's a break somewhere along there I might need to drop the tank to get to the connectors and test for voltage. Past that is just a ground wire, fairly easy to check if I can find where it connects to the frame.
Actually, something just occurred to me. If there's no power to the pump, and it's a direct link from the inertia switch to the pump itself, shouldn't it show 0 volts while turning the key? I only have a high school knowledge of circuitry, but it seems like with an open circuit as would happen with a broken wire or loose ground, nothing would be able to get through to ground to complete the circuit and allow voltage to show on the multimeter. It almost seems like the pk/bk wire has grounded itself somewhere, or the pump is actually getting power through it but won't spin. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Re: 1988 B2 2.9EFI stalls, starts right back up
Rowan. Have you tried a little shot of starter fluid to see if you have a fuel delivery problem or a ignition problem? That is how I narrowed it down on mine to a least fuel delivery. When the motor ran for several seconds on starter fluid I knew for some reason I wasn't getting fuel. For now you may not have to drop the tank. Why they didn't put an access port in the back floor to replace the fuel pump and sending unit I will never know. Come to think of it I do remember earlier in the post you checked for pressure in the fuel rail. Good luck. I understand how frustrating and time consuming this can be.
Rob in NC
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RowanAmeth
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Re: 1988 B2 2.9EFI stalls, starts right back up
Ok, it's been a little over a month and after some dire financial woes, I'm finally working towards getting this beast running again! The truck is now at my dad's house, and as soon as I have some time, I'm taking a multimeter to the pumps and seeing if they're getting power. If that's the case, I'm replacing the high-pressure pump first and seeing if that's all it needs, and if not I'll just roll up my sleeves and drop the tank. I should probably be doing that anyway, and just replace the whole assembly, see if I can't get the fuel gauge working again.
After that it's a new parking brake cable and off to the shop to get it inspected and on the road. I'm optimistic about this, and MORE than ready to finally have a working truck. Walking everywhere is good exercise, but I miss the freedom of being able to go where I want, when I want.
After everything's good and legal, my next trick is to replace the valve cover gaskets. Apparently the previous owner didn't know the difference between the valve cover gaskets and the head gaskets, and told me the latter were leaking. To my relief, that's not the case, he just didn't know what he was talking about. The transmission seems to have a small leak, though only when it warms up, so I'm thinking I should get the seals replaced, probably taking that to the shop as I'm not the most experienced and would rather not risk toying around with an automatic transmission.
Other repairs will be new tires (hopefully solving the slow leak problems, if not I might need new rims), replacing the brake pads, doing the radiator swap, fixing the passenger power window and the arms for the rear glass, and new wiper blades. I'm sure more problems will make themselves known at some point, but hopefully nothing serious will come up and I'll be able to get the parts I need without too much hassle or cost.
After that it's a new parking brake cable and off to the shop to get it inspected and on the road. I'm optimistic about this, and MORE than ready to finally have a working truck. Walking everywhere is good exercise, but I miss the freedom of being able to go where I want, when I want.
After everything's good and legal, my next trick is to replace the valve cover gaskets. Apparently the previous owner didn't know the difference between the valve cover gaskets and the head gaskets, and told me the latter were leaking. To my relief, that's not the case, he just didn't know what he was talking about. The transmission seems to have a small leak, though only when it warms up, so I'm thinking I should get the seals replaced, probably taking that to the shop as I'm not the most experienced and would rather not risk toying around with an automatic transmission.
Other repairs will be new tires (hopefully solving the slow leak problems, if not I might need new rims), replacing the brake pads, doing the radiator swap, fixing the passenger power window and the arms for the rear glass, and new wiper blades. I'm sure more problems will make themselves known at some point, but hopefully nothing serious will come up and I'll be able to get the parts I need without too much hassle or cost.