Bush or Kerry--vote here!

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Who will you vote for?

Bush
14
88%
Kerry
2
13%
 
Total votes: 16

Happy_Jack
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Post by Happy_Jack »

I wish we could have this disscussion in real time around a campfire. Say up on Tincup Pass road or out in Beef Basin.

Welcome to the real world. It takes money to win an election. I am also a registered independent but have not voted for in Democrat in so long I no longer see the point. I guess you could have a conservative Democrat running against a liberal Republican in the same race. But what are the odds that Brady and his bunch or the Babbit bunch would let this happen. Let alone the NRA and the PTL on the other side. At least in a race for an office that could do much on these issues.
NightKrawler
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Post by NightKrawler »

n9emz wrote:
wilber wrote:im an indpendent to, i think voting straight party is fawking stupid i vote for the issues at hand not the party there with
I'm registered Republican but I can't ever recall voting the ticket. Like Fatty, I vote for whomever I feel will get the job done. That appears to be Dubya this time around.

As for why different age groups vote the way they do, all I can say is what I witness around me every day, and from what my kids' 30-ish friends do and say. They want all the freebie programs they can get; if they have to pay anything in taxes it's too much; they aren't having fun if they're not fawked up on alcohol or some substance/chemical; they feel they have a right to say and do anything, no matter how offensive, without consequence or responsibility; hard work is a foreign concept (most are only sporadically employed; some have never had a real job); they consider abortion to be a method of conventional birth control; and, most of all, they have absolutely no respect for the traditional morals and principles that set this nation apart and above all others to begin with.

Honor, loyalty, respect, integrity, and especially truth are merely words to them. My oldest son has a bumper sticker on his car that says, "Nobody got killed when Clinton lied."

Those things alone would be enough reason for me to vote against who my son and his crowd supports.
DAMN Sambo don't sugar coat it now. Tell us how you really feel. :D

Being that I'm raising an 11 year old Step son I've got to totally agree.

Hard work or any work he run's from and hides behind his mother and feels that I should just give him everything. It is his right to recieve not to work for it. :puke:

I worry about this boy more then anybody knows. I plan on him learning the hard way from the cold hard world because there doesn't seem to be any other way he's gonna learn it.

Here's my wifes attitude "Caleb's my baby and you need to just STFU!" :hmmm:

The boy is doomed because his mother won't let me be his father and teach him how to be a man.

Anyways :finger:
85 B2 Locked front/rear D35 TTB 5.13's, Ex 8.8", 35" MT's, 15x8 Steel, 3" Duff Lift & 3" BL.
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Phillippi
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Post by Phillippi »

NightKrawler wrote: Being that I'm raising an 11 year old Step son I've got to totally agree.

Hard work or any work he run's from and hides behind his mother and feels that I should just give him everything. It is his right to recieve not to work for it. :puke:

I worry about this boy more then anybody knows. I plan on him learning the hard way from the cold hard world because there doesn't seem to be any other way he's gonna learn it.

Here's my wifes attitude "Caleb's my baby and you need to just STFU!" :hmmm:

The boy is doomed because his mother won't let me be his father and teach him how to be a man.

Anyways :finger:
That sounds exactly like my brother in law who is 24 and has never had a real job, and has had everything given to him. One day Mommy isnt going to be there to give him whatever he wants and the world is going to kick him in the ass. Those types of kids also have no respect for anyone or their property. Its a pain in the ass. :puke:
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Nobody
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Post by Nobody »

I don't think that kids are any different than they ever have been. There are just more people, which means more punk kids. In 20 years, they'll be saying the same thing about the upcoming generation.

In regards to why they might support Kerry, I think there are many possible reasons. Right at the top of the list I think you'll find bands and celeberties that they tend to idolize. Lets not forget talk show hosts like Howard Stern.

As mentioned they are influenced by liberal educators. Their heart is in the right place on issues such as the environment, and minimum wage, they just don't see the whole picture yet. Hell, a lot of adults don't.

In the end, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. When they find themselves at the other end of "redistribution of wealth" they'll feel a little differently.
n9emz
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Post by n9emz »

That apple thingie has a few wrinkles....hurricane winds of contemporary society often blow them quite a ways from the base of the tree during their fall. And kids are quite a bit different now where their value systems are concerned, but that's our fault. I blame a lot of it on toys and outhouses. When I was a kid, I was lucky to have a broomhandle and a bent can to play ball with and an outhouse to push over when I felt the urge to show out. There's this desire within us all to make life and the world a better place for our kids than what we had to deal with.

Yeah, redistribution of wealth is a bitch to get a handle on. On the one hand, I truly believe that everyone who honestly desires to put in a good day's work not only deserves to make a living wage, but it should be incumbent upon employers to make that available. And when someone spends twenty or more years driving worn out Chevys in the service of an employer so that he/she can sport their Mercedes, that employee has more coming at the end of the job rainbow than a couple of slaps on the back, a piece of costume jewelry, a slice of cake and a helping hand out the door for the last time. $5.15 an hour ain't gonna get that done. The sad fact is, a lot of the service industries will go belly-up if they have to pay over $3-$4 per hour. Many are probably unaware that the minimum wage is determined by state laws; check this out:

Minimum Wage by State

Like everyone else, I made mistakes with my kids, and during the early years about the only good example I set was that I was continuously employed, paid off my mortgage, and for the most part lived within my means. I worked a bunch of dead-end jobs, suffered a number of lay-offs, finally found something I could do that held the promise of a slice of the American Pie, and I'll get it in another few years. I'm proud I worked hard all my life and I will be rewarded for it; but, the flipside of that coin is I am lucky too. The fact that I do have some sort of financial security coming in my old age is a fawken accident, because I damned sure couldn't figure out a plan to purposely wind up like I have. And it's damned site harder for young folks to come up with a plan nowadays.

In fact, if one doesn't have high expectations regarding standard of living and material wealth, it's a damned site easier for a kid nowadays to get where I'm at by not working. In four or five more years my oldest son's house (which is worth at least twice what mine is) will be paid off, and he's never paid over $25.00 a month on his mortgage payment. The taxpayers have ponied up for the balance through HUD, Section 8, and other homeowner assistance programs. The easy route to success today is knock up your girlfriend, prove her unfit to raise the kid and get custody, continuously apply for jobs you're unqualified for, find someone to work for who will pay you under the table, and live off the public dole. My son and his friends consider me stupid because I have to go to work instead of come over and party with them on Friday and Saturday nights. Hell, my wife is always up my ass because I don't spend time with the boys any more.

Sorry about the rant. But the apple thing just doesn't wash. No matter how much time working parents can find to spend with their kids, the kids have much more time where they're influenced by society.....and society today is a mere perversion of what it used to be. But, that's a whole 'nother subject I don't even want to get into. Here's what I gots to say to parents:

You do your best and hope that your kid chooses the right course in his or her final analysis of what's right and what's wrong. You may well be responsible to some degree for what that child does until age 21 but, after that, it's all on them. Up until age 30 or so, I had all kinds of Liberal support in blaming my folks and my childhood/adolescent environment for the mistakes I made in early adulthood.....I was really in a rut and they were handing me the shovel to dig in deeper. Then....suddenly....I figured out I had the ability to choose a different path and that it was up to me to determine what would happen in the future. Fawk them Liberals!

That, as a parent, is the best you can expect for your children: That they will figure out on their own that it's themselves that will be responsible for however they eventually turn out in the future.

I'm done....that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
plowboy
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Post by plowboy »

Hey N9 you can take a breath now :D WOW :laugh:
Can't think of anything witty, intelligent, or cool to say...guess I'm just stupid.
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Nobody
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Post by Nobody »

I guess I'm a bit more optimistic when it comes to Americas youth.

In regards to the minimum wage, it's set at the Federal level. If a state chooses, they can make it higher than the federal level, but not lower.
In cases where an employee is subject to both the state and federal minimum wage laws, the employee is entitled to the higher of the two minimum wages.
I believe in free enterprise. Let the people determine what the job is worth. Forcing a minimum wage only adds to inflation. At the same time, I think there should be incentives for businesses to offer fair wages and benefit packages. There is definately a need for labor laws though. 40hr work weeks, overtime pay, legal workers etc.. are all very important.

One of the biggest factors in who gets to drive the old chevy vs the mercedes is education. There is a significant hurdle poor people need to overcome before their kids can get the education they need. That's what needs to be fixed. No child left behind is a good start.
DBrown
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Post by DBrown »

yeah, I agree labor laws need to stay in place to protect the worker from getting ripped off. and the minimum wage should be left where they are but all of that is economic theory. the average person around here doesn't have a background in that so people think that it is a good idea. however I think the trickle down effect is not always working when it comes to the type of scandles that we are having in big business. when you have companies like enron spending millions of dollars to buy useless benifits for the head people I just see no justification for more tax breaks to the business and people that are in charge of those businesses. I see a large part of my check taken away because of taxes and I just don't understand why I sould get the tax increases when people that have more money than me are getting breaks? lets face it, people that have money can afford accountants that will get them every penny possible even if they have to play the system. I got H&R Block? how is that fair? I think that if they are going to continue to take SS out of my check I want it back when I retire. with SS in the general fund that will never happen. my friends always sit there and dream about what kind of cars they would buy if they hit the lottery or came into some money, it is funny to see there face when I tell then I wouldn't buy a new car I would just keep what I have and keep the 40K in my kids collage fund. I think who ever get elected they need to promote more finantial responsobility in the government. I am sure that it can be streamlined in some way or another to get bills paid before they just keep spending, spending, spending....
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Nobody
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Post by Nobody »

Dbrown, you're voting for the wrong person. I guarandamntee you that Kerry is going to tax the shit out of us. He's all but come out and said it. It might look like he's only going to tax the rich, but you're going to feel it in your pocket. Bush has already put some some cash in all of our pockets, reduced the marriage pentaly and increased the child credit.

In general, Republicans are for small goverment and democrats are for big government.

Enron is a bad example. They are out of business, and many of the execs are in jail as they should be. So is Martha Stuart :laugh: Republicans don't condone that sort of corruption, it's just human nature.

The bottom line is, do you want businesses to collapse under heavy regulation, or prosper under deregulation. Less business = less jobs.

My delima is I'm economically conservative, and socially liberal. I'm all about financial and social freedom. Unfortunately the Libertarian party takes it just a little too far.
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Phillippi
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Post by Phillippi »

Nobody wrote:I guess I'm a bit more optimistic when it comes to Americas youth.

I see it all the time. Good parents that have shitty kids. The problem is now that there seems to be more money (atleast around here) and they give more and more to their kids without having them work for it or pay it back. They do not learn any responsibility with stuff just given to them. They do not respect anyone elses stuff at all. They also dont respect any type of authority (as seen on recent posts on Pirate).
n9emz
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Post by n9emz »

Actually, Bush's tax incentive did trickle down to our level. Since July of 03 I have taken home on average of $70 per month more in my paychecks and our joint return for 2003 was nearly $800 more than previous years. Note that I don't take home enough to pay the average Shakey Side rent on a 1-BR studio apartment; and my wife draws SS and has a part-time hobby job that pays less than minimum wage + tips.

I got my first paycheck in 1958, and Bush's tax cut of 2003 was the first time in my work history that I can ever recall benefitting significantly from. Stack that up with his warplans, my agreement that birth control is not acceptable as a substitute for the pill, IUD, condoms, diaphragms, foam, etc., fawk the French and Germans, assistance programs are meant to benefit the truly needy......aw, fawk it!

Yeah, I hate even dragging out my soapbox, and thanks for recommending the breather. I also wish we could all sit around a bonfire together, toss a couple of cold ones down, and kick this stuff around together. Ya know.....there's good in both platforms and people with open minds can reach a consensus if that's their goal. The real fawken problem is the people capable of leading who could pull off that consensus are unwilling to take the damned job of President to begin with. Maybe in one of our lifetimes the perfect candidate will come along and win.

Regards and best wishes to you all....I'd really like to meet up with y'all on the trails soon.

Peace Out!

Sambo
plowboy
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Post by plowboy »

n9emz wrote: I also wish we could all sit around a bonfire together, toss a couple of cold ones down, and kick this stuff around together.
Hey Sam, Any trails close to McCormick's Creek? Mabey next spring?

I wish that I was as articulate as some of you. You say what I think.
Can't think of anything witty, intelligent, or cool to say...guess I'm just stupid.
plowboy
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Post by plowboy »

When I was 5 years old my dad started teaching me to drive. By the age of 8 I was working ground on a tractor by myself. At the age of 12, I had learned to drive the big grain truck and the combine and was driving anywhere my dad would let me (not by myself of course). I would get home do homework and if dad was working late he would leave instructions with mom on which feild he wanted me to work. I would work ground for my uncles just to get enough money to help my parents by some jeans for me for shcool. My brother and I had to help feed the animals, weed the garden, snap beans, dig potatoes, etc.

Sorry I'll get to the point. I many times have my two older boys (8 and 10) out helping me mow or rake leaves, work on a vehicle etc. Many times they ask if they are getting paid for helping me. I tell them yah ya are. You get to live in a house, sleep in your own bed, and eat a hot meal at the table. That sure changes their attitude a bit. So many times I see attitudes of people that have grown up or are growing up with the attitude that everything should be handed to them. In retrospect I myself have been guilty of that same attitude. There is no substitute for plain hard work. A lot more young people could use a dose of reality. Work for what you want and be proud of it when you get it.

I am guilty too of wanting my kids to have things that I didn't have. However, I also am trying my best to teach them the value of hard work. Nothing just comes to you. Sometimes you get lucky, and you catch a break. Most of the time you have to work for everything you get. That's Life. My gripe is people that just live off the system. I am not against welfare. I think that it's ok for a season. When people begin to live off of the hard work that you and I do, then I have a problem.

Back to politics. What ever happened to government for the people, by the people? Most liberals and democrats only want government of the people. I think that John Kerry is a very scary individual. I saw him on the today show a couple of days ago talking about how he went to war for this country and how he would protect and stand up for this country. Wow, quite a statemnent for serving 4 months, injuring yourself 3 times so that you could be sent home. Definately doesn't get my vote!

Anyhow just my $.02
Can't think of anything witty, intelligent, or cool to say...guess I'm just stupid.
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