Head gaskets...

Ask technical questions about your Ford Bronco II here. Technical write-ups on your axle swaps, engine swaps, chop tops, etc. are encouraged.
jefe
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Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Head gaskets...

Post by jefe »

tekatlarge wrote:Jefe,

At this particular point I think I would stop the gasket process and at least pull both heads. It looks to me like you have a possible problem brewing in the top end. I really don't like the looks of the plugs. You are at the perfect spot to fix things so I think it is time well spent to pull the heads. At this point I think I would pull the heads take them to the local Automotive Machine Shop and tell them to freshen them up and check for cracks. It is not a huge expense and if you do this now you will have that much more confidence in your engine.
Ok Tek.....I've been at this 50/50 stage for a while now with it.....I appreciate all your advice....I think you are right, if I go ahead and do it, then I'll feel a whole lot better when I put it all back together.....and it's not a daily driver, so I have the time to do things right.....even though it's more work, if you guys are seeing some questionable things in those pics, then now is the time to do it since everything is apart already.

Any particular brand of head gaskets you trust more than others?

Thanks again for all of the advice.
moogvo
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Location: Hazzard County, NC

Re: Head gaskets...

Post by moogvo »

Get a block tester and look for exhaust in the coolant. Do you have water in the oil? Is there an excessive amount of moisture coming out of the exhaust pipe? Does your overflow resovoir inflate like a balloon when you shut it off?

If none of these conditions are present, your heads and gaskets are probably fine. Put it all back together, do a complete tune up (plugs, wires, cap and button) and call it a day.
Tom Moog

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jefe
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Re: Head gaskets...

Post by jefe »

Wanted to give an update.....finally got around to pulling the heads off this past weekend. I started to try and get the exhaust manifold bolts off but I could tell they were going to snap so I just unbolted the exhaust further down the line and was able to get the heads off with the exhaust manifolds still attached.

I'm going to post some photos of everything this week so you guys can take a look. Since I've never been this far into an engine before, it'd be nice to have some more eyes on it looking for problems.

One question though....when I was just getting the heads loose from the block, I heard some fluid dripping onto the floor below....checked it out and it appeared to just be water. I drained the coolant from the radiator a while back but I never could find the block plug. Anyways, i didn't know if this was normal to have water drain out when the heads are loose and thought I'd ask.
moogvo
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Re: Head gaskets...

Post by moogvo »

It isn't a problem to have water drain into the cylinders... IF you dry it out and coat the cylinder walls with oil to keep them from rusting. It is a good idea to put oiled rads in there too if you are going to have it apart for a while, and you MUST change the oil before running it again! You don't want water in your bearings!

Having said that, look at the head gaskets very carefully. Hopefully you were able to get them off without tearing them. Look for a place where the gasket is disturbed. If you find a place in the gasket that looks blown, look at the same place on the head to see if there is a crack... most likely, the crack will be in the same place the gasket blew.

You will have to go over it with a magnifying glass to look for cracks. Most of the time heads crack between the valves. Still, you should send them out to a machine shop to make sure they are okay, and to have any work done that they may need. It is possible to have problems in the head in places where you cannot see. I doubt that we will be able to detect problems from photos taken, but we do like pics, so do show them to us!

This may be late advice, but if you marked the distributor before you took it out, make sure not to turn the engine over until it is back in or it will be WAYYY out of time and will not run... I know, it's tempting to turn the key to see the pistons go up and down, but resist the urge. LOL! Speaking of pistons, do they look good? are they all chewed up? what about the cylinder walls... You should be able to feel a slight "ridge" at the top. This will give you an indicator of how worn the engine is. What about the cylinder walls? are they shiny and smooth? Can you see the original honing marks in them?

Pay some attention to the lifter valley where the oil drains back down into the block... Are all of the oil journals clear and letting oil drain properly, or are some of them plugged up? What about sludge? Is the inside of the lifter valley all crudded over? It won't hurt anything to clean all of that out and make sure the passages are not obstructed.

Do you have gack all over the block from years of leaky valve covers? This would be a great time to clean it up while you have fairly good access to it. I scraped as much off with a plastic putty knife as I could, then hit it with a can of "easy Off" oven cleaner... I figured that the engine looked a lot like some of the stuff my wife makes in the kitchen and Easy off always seems to work for her so... Ans it did. The block is clean! Just know that it will take paint off, so if that isn't what you want, then use something else!

I used the opportunity to clean the block and strip and re-paint the valve covers and other engine parts. I am still butt deep in this thing, but I will share some images with you for reference...

Here I am working on the grease pit... It might as well be a barbecue grill for all the nasty crud in it...

Image

Here is a shot of me with the project supervisor...

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Nothing says "love" quite like the kids helping out:

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Notice the yummy crud growing on the motor mount and oil filter... Mmm mmm MMM!

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I have started working on the engine cosmetics while I am waiting for my new heads to arrive...

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My wife is SO patient... not complaining because I used "her" oven to bake and cure the paint... Ya gotta do what ya gotta do!

Keep us posted on your progress and don't be afraid to ask for help!
Tom Moog

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jefe
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Re: Head gaskets...

Post by jefe »

Thanks for the feedback moogvo....and you won't have to worry about me asking questions...hah...I've already been asking quite a few.

Good tip about the oiled rags because I'm sure it will be apart for a few weeks while I get some things ordered, take the heads to a machine shop and all that.

The gaskets stayed intact for the most part but I haven't taken a good look at them yet....and I did mark the distributor and don't plan on turning the key until it's all back together again. ha!

Here's a couple of pics. Let me know if anything stands out....and I can take more detailed shots maybe...

Image

Image
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tekatlarge
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Re: Head gaskets...

Post by tekatlarge »

Jefe,

The pictures look pretty good and I only noticed 2 things. The first thing I noticed was a lot of gunk in the water jackets of the block. The second thing I saw was that funny looking stain on the center Cylinder of one of the heads. When you take the heads down be sure to have them checked for cracks. I would also try and remove as much muck from the water jackets as possible. When you put it back together I would have the system power flushed. I can't really see anything else glaringly wrong.
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jefe
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Re: Head gaskets...

Post by jefe »

Thanks for looking Tek....I think the gunk is from the head gaskets but I'm not 100%. I haven't looked at the stuff in detail yet cause I was so tired after getting all that stuff out. And I'll check that stain out too.

Gotta find a local shop to check the heads soon......and I wonder what you mean by having the system power flushed?
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tekatlarge
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Re: Head gaskets...

Post by tekatlarge »

I sometimes get fast and loose with words. What I meant was have the cooling system flushed. some people call draining the coolant and refilling with clean coolant, a flush! What I meant was to have the system flushed by a machine. The machine flush is more vigorous and and be set to flush in reverse. It cleans the system pretty damn good.
The Tek @ Large
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jefe
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Re: Head gaskets...

Post by jefe »

I see....I thought that's what you meant but yea, I'll have to look into that once it's all back together.

So far, it's been apart for about 3 months...ha ha...but sometimes it's hard to find the time to work on it.....
jefe
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Re: Head gaskets...

Post by jefe »

Dropped the heads off this morning at the machine shop to get checked and got the news this afternoon.

They saying it needs a valve job + new exhaust seats + some other stuff I am forgetting.....telling me labor costs + parts are over $400.

I'm guessing I'm probably better off getting new heads especially since these are so old.

Any recommendations?
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tekatlarge
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Re: Head gaskets...

Post by tekatlarge »

Well the last set of World castings I bought I think were around 250 each. That was the bare castings. Then I had to buy all new intake and exhaust valves, springs, clips, etc. Oh and I had to put it all together. Your still cheaper than new heads. All heads even the world heads are likely to crack if run out of coolant or overheated at all. The local shop is charging you $200 each for your head and if they replace valves guides and such it is still cheaper than new heads.

Ask the guy for an itemized list of the parts that will be replaced and what will be reworked?
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jefe
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Re: Head gaskets...

Post by jefe »

resurface, cleaning, remove 6 broken exhaust manifold studs, new exhaust seats, valve job, parts and labor - $380.
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tekatlarge
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Re: Head gaskets...

Post by tekatlarge »

Go for it quick!!!
The Tek @ Large
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jefe
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Re: Head gaskets...

Post by jefe »

ha ha! Already on it. A lot more than I was expecting to pay to spruce up the old heads, but we got to talking and with this bronco not being a daily driver, it didn't seem to make sense to put brand new heads on an old motor. I don't plan on riding this thing hard at all so this route was much cheaper than new heads and all of that.

Should get them back by this coming weekend. Can't wait to see them all cleaned up.

Any tips on the type of bolts I should get to replace the busted exhaust manifold ones?
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